2007 01 05
There is a very interesting discussion going on on Eddy Young’s blog on the meaning of being Mauritian.
My opinion is it’s only through more mixed marriages that problems like ‘communalisme’ will one day be solved…
(Photo courtesy of Helen Morgan)
Popularity: 8% [?]
January 5th, 2007 at 13:47
Maybe it can get worst!! lol
an unsuccessful miXed marriages might become an exemple for others..
For a mixed marriage to work i believe there must be acceptance of the other religion by not just the partners but the relatives as well.. also i think there must be the will for the partners to participate in each other beliefs and ceremonies..
and when some problems crop up.. we should be practical and try to find so and so reasons relatining everthing to religion…
MiXed marriages is more and more common these days since young people don’t really get into that communalist crap.. ( thats y many is not really interested in politics lol :p)
ps: maybe we could get some wise thoughts from you, being part of a successful mixed married life!! was it difficult?
January 5th, 2007 at 14:50
Yep! Christina and I are very happy. The kids are fine. And our respective families really like each other. I don’t know if this is a common situation or it’s exceptional.
What I know is that Christina and I are both intelligent (ahem!) and strong enough to do things as we think is best for us.
Basically, you need to have a brain and some muscle to do things properly… including a mixed marriage
January 5th, 2007 at 15:18
my big bro has had a mixed marriage..
well from wht i could c..sometimes the mixed marriage work better..
its all abt the families..acceptance..and well love between the couple..
it true that nowadays mixed marriages are pretty common bt there still are some narrow minded ppl who find it wrong (like one of my ex’s father !!! :()
besides..we r all mauritians first..or so i tend to think..then mixed marriages have to b something common..
anyways..
we have some living example..in the persone of Mrs and Mrs Meetoo..and my Big bro and sis in law..
(is is a fact that kids from a mixed marriage are smewht cuter than the others???)
January 5th, 2007 at 20:40
@vicks: The most important ingredient to any successful marriage is willingness to accept each other’s choice, including the choice not to participate in said ceremonies.
Mixed marriages work better if the families of the couple get along together, but generally in any marriage, it is best if the two families avoided each other
January 6th, 2007 at 05:01
I think Eddy is quite right, sometimes it does help when the 2 families don’t mix too much. I think Avinash has an interesting point when he says mixed marriages help solve ‘communalisme’, however it does not apply in all mixed marriage situations, and it is not the ‘only’ solution.
Education is a tool that can teach the coming generations to respect each other’s cultures and to live in harmony with each other. The media, through manipulated representations and through audience segmentation, is instigating communalism. It should rather be used to lessen & dampen it, more culturally mixed programs on TV will be a very good start and also I seriously think religion should not be mixed with media. Religion has its own channels to reach its audience (temples, shows, celebrations etc..)
I am all for mixed marriage, but in several cases, I have seen the children being a bit lost when they have to decide on the religion to follow and more importantly the values and traditions to adopt. Mixed marriages tend to dilute the significance of particular cultures and traditions and the children end up adopting a ‘bastardised’ culture, as they do not really know the real meaning behind the values they follow… One could argue this ‘bastardised’ culture is ‘contemporary’ culture but I think it is more like the effects cultural imperialism and globalisation, whereby we become what we consume.
January 6th, 2007 at 10:11
@ Eddy :
i dnt totally agree..well as from wht i’ve seen, my sister in law participates actively in hindu ceremonies..and my brother as well participates actively in christian ceremonies..there kids follow catechism classes..and on saturdays follow hindi classes..since the school does provide it..
hmm i dunno if its exceptional..or if its usually wht happens..bt both families usually have some get togethers..we get along very well..even they do attend some religious ceremonies at home..and so do we for them..
till now it hasnt been a problem
when my brother got married, there was a hindu wedding ceremony..the priest translated the whole ceremony in french (well the wedding took a bit more time) and also there was father souchon to give the blessings..
this was the first time there was both a hindu and christian priest in the same ceremony..
so it is just a question of accepting the each other..
need to say..my family is close with my elder sis in laws family..rather than my other sis in laws family..
January 6th, 2007 at 13:30
Eddy:
“generally in any marriage, it is best if the two families avoid each other”
Agree with you on that but for in case of mixed marriages its better and i believe a must to have interaction between the families.
ACCEPTANCE AND EDUCATION IS A ESSENTIAL to fight against the communalist problem..
and i believe religion shouldn’t be put in any official documents.. like y bother putting the religion of parents on birth certificates?
January 6th, 2007 at 21:57
Hi
I’d like to shed another side of all these positive things about mixed marriages and apologies if I might sound blunt.
1. What happens when you marry a muslim in Mauritius? You convert to islam, no questions asked whether you’re the man or the woman. Exceptions are very very rare.
2. Children borne out of hindu/christian/muslim marriages will always follow the christian/muslim religion. To begin with it has lots of advantages like getting a place in confessional schools, the priest will subtly encourage the christian parent to have the child baptised or the child won’t get past Saint Pierre when going to heaven. And last but not the least, thanks to incompetent pandits, the dressing and participating in hindu ceremonies are considered “gopia” and outdated, very different from dressing up and going to the mass.
3. Hindus in Mauritius are embarassed of their religion so they have no qualms in converting to another religion. I have seen people who never set foot in a mandir for their whole life suddenly going to prayers every day after their conversion.
4. There’s a very big difference in leading a religious life and leading a moral life.
5. Finally, marriage is an outdated institution. Or rather its like extreme sports, you know its dangerous but you want to dive into it just for the kick of it.
Again, sorry if I have been blunt but I have the impression everybody looks at these situations with rosy glasses only.
January 7th, 2007 at 00:03
I have to tell you that you sound blunt Raj
I don’t know about (1) except that Christina’s mother who was Muslim converted to Catholicism when she married a Chinese.
As for (2), my kids will choose by themselves what to follow when they are 18. But then, Christina and I are both atheists (i.e. we value culture but not religion…) so things might understandably be easier.
I am not sure about (3). I would have thought that conversions (from any religion to any other) were rather rare in Mauritius.
If religious life is only going to church regularly then I agree with (4). But I would tend to think that for most persons, religious life = spiritual life = moral life.
Marriage may be outdated (in fact, in France, there are more unmarried couples than married ones) but as we don’t have the equivalent of PACS here in Mauritius, we don’t really have a choice, do we?
By the way, I would not like this discussion to become a pro-X / anti-Y thing. Let’s all be intelligent. Or else, I’ll use my electronic scissors!
January 7th, 2007 at 10:22
AAAAAA some spice
@ Raj
idon’t want to be rude but i really don’t agree with ur perceptions of religion. my reactions to ur points!
1. i also Know several exceptions
2. If some1 decides to follow something only to benefit from advantages.. this gives us an idea of how narrow minded he/she is.
3. personally i can’t see how clothes and prayers come in here?? if we wear jeans and tshirt do you mean that we can’t enter a mandir or church.. am quite religious myself, and clothes no matter watever you wear to pray as long as ur heart is clean, its fine!! Do you think going to mandir or any other religious place makes a more religious than others?? You don’t become religious only by going to prayers.. etc. personally i’ve know lots of people complaining when it comes to fasting.. going to late prayers etc.. if you
don’t want to do something.. simply don’t do it!! well i won’t start a lecture about religion here.. but some people sadly have wrong perception of religion in Mauritius
4. can’t see the difference.. maybe some1 can enlight me! all religions teaches the same basic things, its just the name we give to them that is different!! Get ahold of the teachings and don’t fight a useless battle of names!!
BY the way if we put our Nationality first then religion!! Mauritius will be a nicer place
January 7th, 2007 at 11:14
Well, I think that usually people who don’t believe in mixed marriages are in fact “afraid” of it.
Perhaps it’s because they never witnessed one or seen the isolated cases of divorce (etc) and attributed it to cultural differences.
Well, as it has been said above, the couple should be intelligent enough not to bring their culture to clash for whatever reason
Also we need lots of courage and guts to go for it considering that people are less inclined to marry at the first place!
My parents are from different cultures… so are most of my uncles and aunts. I have SOOOO many (i lost count! :)) friends and friend’s siblings in similar situations…
and believe me, NOT a single case of divorce or any sort of break up! and they are all happy!
@ Raj: I really don’t see why I can’t wear the “rosy glasses”… coz I believe in what I see!
January 7th, 2007 at 11:20
Aller Maurice!! :p
Totally agree with Vicks..
we r all firstly Mauritians and then hindu, muslim, or christian..etc..
we should b more unified as a nation..pas nek kan ena jeux des iles..ou ene lot truc du genre ki nou pou dire nou moricien..nek dire ou penser ki nou moricien pas assez..nou bizin oci vive kouma moricien..
En passant..sa post la ti lor, wht does it mean to be mauritian?
o lieux nou gagne ene discussion lor religion ou ban truc ki passe apres..
kifer nou pas guette imper ban zaffaire ki nou ena ek ki ban lezot pena??
January 7th, 2007 at 15:03
Hi
I don’t also want this discussion to be pro-X/anti-Y so I won’t comment any further so I’ll spare you the need for electronic scissors.
As regards to my point 5, society has evolved as follows:
1. Tribe
2. Extended family
3. Nuclear family
4. Couple
5. Individual
….
At which stage you want to be at is I believe a personal choice and shouldn’t be judged by anybody.
January 7th, 2007 at 15:53
@ Raj:
I fink ur a bit biased mate :
2. Dressing up for religious ceremonies is definitely not mandatory as far as i kno! i’ve bin attendin several puja’s wearin jeans n a T without any obection raised! the way u dress is part of ur culture, not religion. I think that its very important to make this distinction! N if u fink that dressin up for hindu ceremonies is considered “gopia”, then imho i think ur wrong. From experience i can say that gurls find guyz really cute in kurtas or sherwanis, u shud hang out at UOM on the day of Divali Show, i’m sure u’ll b surprised
3. Its wrong to say that hindus r embarassed about their religion! Or r u talking bout the Indian culture here? not the same fing mate!! I myself consider myself spiritual rather then religious, i do not blindly follow rituals, or at least try to find the scientific meaning behind them! Some of them are of course due to superstitions, but then all religions contain a fair amount of it! As far as i’m concerned there’s nufin 2 b embarassed about!
>
i have also witnessed this but maybe its simply because they willingly chose the religion they converted to and hence have a greater affinity to it. Nothing dark and sinister about it lol, ppl shud b free to follow wateva religion they want!
4. I can’t see the difference either! different cultures have different moral values! Wats rite for 1 culture could b akin to blasphemy for another one…thats a pity really, i’d luv to have 7 wives lol!
@ Avinaash:
i think that mixed marriages would definitely be a solution to racism! i mean it wud b hard to hate the religion the 1 u luv is followin…
but i dun think we shud consciously try to find sum1 of a different religion just for the sake of havin a mixed marriage! Its hard enuf findin the perfect marriage material without involvin religion in it!!
i am a hindu and over the years i’ve gone out with loads of gurls, yet only 2 of em were hindu n i’m not even talking bout caste here! so following this trend, the probability of my finding a hindu gurl of the rite caste to marry is rather small lol ( barring an arranged marriage of course which is even less likely)
i fink that for any relationship to work u shud respect ur partner, her thoughts, her beliefs, and that includes her religion…if two ppl r happi together then the relationship is bound to work, wateva their respective religion…as for kids, well, imho, it think that they shud have a taste of both religions and then make their own choice when they are adults…and the way fings are going, i think it is far more likely that the real choice wud be between following any religion at all or being an atheist!!
January 7th, 2007 at 17:06
Everybody puts religion first, then Nationality. It applies everywhere: even in France, the US, in Arab nations too.
I do too with pride.
If I’m Mauritian like all of you, that’s good. But if I hear of one wanting to rid this world of hatred or communalism, he should be joking. Period.
One more thing: I agree with Raj(2). If one wants to know why many people convert to Islam after marriage, well…that tells you Avinash about one very important thing.
I also welcome your decision in letting your kids make a choice about which religion to follow at 18. Hope they are as ‘intelligent’ as you are when the time comes…
January 7th, 2007 at 22:42
I think there is a major misconception in Mauritius (and other countries as well) about Culture & Religion
Religion is a system of faith/belief & worship of a controlling power, which is usually superhuman. So the religions in Mauritius are divided into Hindu, Christian, Catholic, Buddhist etc…
Culture is formed up of the knowledge we acquire as we grow up in a certain social group. Our attitude, behavior, customs, philosophy, lifestyle, & tradition all make up our culture. When we are born and raised in Mauritius, we are all the products of the Mauritian Culture. Some of us adopt a more ‘sophisticated culture’ while others prefer a ‘practical culture’ and there’s even a bunch who mix their religion and their culture to get ‘religious culture’.
However, it is indisputable that both religion and culture affect each other with different degrees of influence. How much religion affects culture, or vice versa, is actually down to the person concerned. It is subjective.
If people really want to put religion in front and say it is the way of life, then we should essentially be living within the real rules & regulations of religion, which date back to the creation of each respective religion. We should forgo modernity, science & technology to live in the same conditions that those people lived in when religions were invented.
When religion was invented, it only took into consideration the material things, the history & culture that existed then. It did not make itself adaptable to the changes that would occur with the several scientific discoveries, cultural revolutions & industrial revolutions that came later. Therefore, religion is not something that we can adapt to the way we progress. Religion is written in a book and has specific laws and regulations which we cannot change. If we could change those, then we would essentially be creating new religions.
I believe that religion is actually derived from the cultures that existed in those early days, and it came about so as to put strict rules & regulations in order to create a system for people to live ‘by’. I personally think religion was invented for some people to have control over others, and maybe it was also invented to try and keep peace, but the result is that it created more wars and divisions. I also think that the best way to make people follow something, which is not natural, is to make them fear it. So, by using deities, demons combined with supernatural & superhuman behaviors, the various religions have managed to establish a fear in people and consequently pushed them to respect their religion, as if they did not abide by the rules & regulations, they would be punished or sent to hell, etc…
Anyway, religion affects the conscience of the one who believes in it. Culture is enough for someone to assess what is good or bad, but culture is very diverse and it is adaptable with other aspects of life (technology, science, lifestyle etc..). Therefore the degrees of goodness and badness vary across different cultures and across different eras. Religion on the other hand is written in a book, it is like the legal system of a country is contained in a book, therefore, it is easier to use religion to tell someone they are being good or bad, as there is always the book to prove it.
Marriage is mainly part of culture, and religion actually only occupies a small role during the ceremony (the prayers/odes uttered by a ‘man of god’ during the wedding ceremony). After that, marriage is about & between a wife and husband. Religion has no role then, but culture, society and the legal system are the watchdogs of the marriage.
Anyway, I personally think religion has become obsolete, it has no real use anymore. The legal system & politics are doing the same job as religion did years ago. I think religion can only bring moral support for some people; it does not in any way prevent people from doing bad things and it is not influence people to do good deeds. It is just there because some people are comfortable with it and it has been there for so long now that it has become like a routine.
January 7th, 2007 at 23:29
Shaan, I think you are spot on (and I am awarding you a Noulakaz d’Or for contributing the longest comment ever
)
I too think that religion is man-made and it has been mostly replaced now by politics and money. Culture is completely orthogonal (i.e. it is perfectly possible for someone to be very religious but to have zero culture i.e. batte femme, ene gros-feuille, etc.)
Nevertheless, things are moving in the right direction. The new generation has the potential to bring a lot of change to Maurtian society…
January 8th, 2007 at 13:34
So much discussion… not one answer to the question
Being British used to be about the stiff upper lip, bowler hats and civil servants. Now being British is about how much curry & beer you can consume at one sitting while bitching about our useless sports teams. I am British, I am proud of my ability to abuse the English national football team and now the cricket team.
Nationality is something that is defined by the individual, but we should remember despite our religious and cultural beliefs, we have more in common that we think we do. For me being Mauritian is about talking very loudly, great food and even better beer… all while watching the English Premier League
You can have your religion and culture, or lack of, but we all make a contribution to this country.
Despite whatever you are fed by the media (the newspapers here do like to bang on about how we are just moments away from killing each other because of religion) and religious extremists, I think we all get along pretty well here. Maybe you guys are a little bored what with the long holiday you get here, so you are all moaning about communalism and identity. If you want to see real hate and racism, I’m sure I could introduce you to a few British National Party members.
Now go eat some dhal puri, drink lots of Phoenix and go stare at the pretty girls for a while. Maybe then you will find the true meaning of being Mauritian. Feel free to substitute dhal puri with mine apollo. No Black Eagle, you’ll all be running around with Indian flags then!
On a more important note, something all Mauritians can discuss. What do people think of the quality of Phoenix beer this holiday period? I have switched to Blue Marlin which is much nicer. Phoenix has really worsened over the years.
Remember MSG is your best friend and life’s too short…
January 8th, 2007 at 22:40
For inter-communal marriages to work, you must have a been brought up with the culture that religion is not the most important thing in life! Education is the key but unfortunately education is a political weapon rather a fundamental right in our country!
About being mauritian, it is to have an ability to continuously gossip and complain without doing anything to change it!!!
January 8th, 2007 at 23:26
Avinash, it seems you’ve reached a record in word count with this heated discussion!!
Ok guys, reality check: welcome to 2007!!! We eat the same food, we breathe the same air and have the same sun over our heads…
Now, let’s talk about what we share in common rather than how different we are (or think we are…), shall we?
January 9th, 2007 at 13:29
We are not Mauritians!
We are spirit souls!
The souls are covered with organic matter,which will be destroyed at death.Organic matter is the same all over the world….
You may now be “Mauritian” and in next life,born in Africa!
So why all ignorance about simple Truths?
why be proud about being white,British,Mauritian…when all is finished at death?
Better concentrate on acquiring knowledge,which can free us from this material world,and go to the spiritual world,wher matter is absent!
Black people complain about their status here,but most probably,they were white in past life???And paying for their offenses against blacks…
http://asitis.com for more
January 9th, 2007 at 22:01
Roland, nationalism in small doses does no harm at all. I’m not advocating a Milosevic-style nationalism that was seen in the ex-Yugoslavia, but there’s nothing wrong in being proud of our shared culture and looking forward to the future of the country we live in.
As for your comments on black people… well I have to say I disagree. I happen to know many blacks who are achieving success here and abroad. To somehow justify the injustices that some are suffering by linking it to reincarnation seems a tad harsh. Of course if you can back this up with fact, I might change my opinion.
Jane, I acquired my Mauritian citizenship through my parents, so I’m not competent at gossiping yet (I wasn’t born with this god-given skill). Fortunately, there is no test for those applying for Mauritian citizenship otherwise I would have failed the gossiping and complaining section!
Maybe if people want to define the Mauritian nationality, have a think about the questions that would be in a citizenship test similar to this for the UK, http://www.lifeintheuktest.gov.uk/index.html
February 9th, 2007 at 21:09
Nice site! Big thanx to webmaster!
June 5th, 2008 at 03:49
Mixed marriages are ok
but see overseas its horrible
where there are no fault divorces mauritian form a big number in xtra marital affairs adultery and if caught divorce
all they do is inflate womens ego by saying yr partner doesnt care for u
u hv better rights
alongwith financial freedom they get rights and screw up
June 5th, 2008 at 07:27
I don’t really understand what you are trying to say…
June 7th, 2008 at 03:43
Bhai Avinash
some stark realities abroad are mauritians are among a leading tribe where ladies swap their hubbies or lovers for someone else
there is no law that can prevent this and in many cases they just shift from their family home to their lovers place …all under just one pretext legally My husband used to abuse me
thats it for the hubby…..
then they come home or ganga talao and wash their sins….simple aint that
June 8th, 2008 at 09:40
Maybe